tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post3211833199867140847..comments2024-01-15T02:19:13.716-08:00Comments on Fragments Of My Imagination: Fool For LoveMark Fieldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16661801011668244109noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-57816939343499487102022-03-16T09:14:58.327-07:002022-03-16T09:14:58.327-07:00Wow! Thank you, kind sir. It's an honor.Wow! Thank you, kind sir. It's an honor.Jacknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-64854359031399153402022-03-15T07:56:04.746-07:002022-03-15T07:56:04.746-07:00I added your comment to the book. Thanks.I added your comment to the book. Thanks.Mark Fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16661801011668244109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-30295933843000649622022-03-14T19:36:34.018-07:002022-03-14T19:36:34.018-07:00That's a great point and I'm envious I did...That's a great point and I'm envious I didn't make the connection to School Hard.Mark Fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16661801011668244109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-71933821461301905812022-03-14T19:29:11.225-07:002022-03-14T19:29:11.225-07:00It's interesting how Spike lies to Buffy about...It's interesting how Spike lies to Buffy about the 1970s slayer in School Hard when he tells Buffy - "The last slayer I killed, she begged for her life. You don't strike me as the begging kind." And yet, here he tells her the exact opposite - that she begged for death. Well, we see in the flashback that she did not, in fact, beg for her life or for her death. I think Spike is just stroking his own ego in both cases - in the first he wanted to sound like a badass to Buffy because he wanted to kill her, and in the second, he wanted to sound like a badass to Buffy because he wanted her to voluntarily surrender. There is no truth in a soulless demon - just manipulative projection in order to fit his agenda. Jacknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-74725007185285000722013-11-12T17:06:35.356-08:002013-11-12T17:06:35.356-08:00Very nice. I like this. Very nice. I like this. Mark Fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16661801011668244109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-352164131627877532013-11-12T17:00:37.697-08:002013-11-12T17:00:37.697-08:00Whether intentional or not (I'm not sure when ...Whether intentional or not (I'm not sure when Joss planned this dynamic between Buffy and Spike) there's a few things that tie back to "School Hard." <br /><br />When Spike notices Buffy is wounded here, Spike smells her bllod. In "School Hard," he had a line that (as you pointed out in your analysis of it) implies that he smelled her menstruating. <br />In SH, Buffy told Spike to drop his sword, and his response created an association between the object and phallic imagery. Here, Buffy knocks Spike's sword out of his hand. <br /><br />If I recall the episode correctly, their dialogue described Spike's longing to kill the slayer with a similar double-meaning to the one you describe here, which ended in Joyce saving Buffy. <br /><br />If Buffy being saved by her mother in SH indicated that Buffy was not ready to have sex (as I believe you pointed out in your analysis of it), the drastically different substitution Joyce finds herself in here, could imply a major change in the dynamic between Buffy and Spike, which is that sex between them, which may juxtapose sex and death as both their conversations in SH and here do, could be nearing. <br /><br />Patricknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-41751215052672876812012-08-20T08:46:57.459-07:002012-08-20T08:46:57.459-07:00That's a good point about the Chinese Slayer.
...That's a good point about the Chinese Slayer.<br /><br />I agree with you on the distinction between having a death wish and wanting to lay down the responsibility of being a Slayer. That's crucial to how I interpret the season.<br /><br />I think Spike was always a popular character, but I agree that he came into his own with FFL. I think that was the point where fans started to become really enamored of him. Mark Fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16661801011668244109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-79698056107116307632012-08-20T08:30:59.708-07:002012-08-20T08:30:59.708-07:00One thing that made Spike's story unreliable t...One thing that made Spike's story unreliable to me within the context of this episode: Spike claims that Buffy has ties to the world (family & friends) that the other Slayers did not, but when dying the (nameless) Chinese Slayer tries to give him a message to send to her mother (I don't recall the exact wording); clearly she does have ties to the world but of course Spike doesn't know this, as he can't understand what she's saying. (This could be read as a subtle criticism of white imperialism, or the failure to bother to understand other people/cultures, although I'm not sure that was intentional.)<br /><br />We all discover later on more about Nikki Woods' ties to the world, but that's after the fact in terms of this episode, and possibly an afterthought by the writers.<br /><br />There's also the fact that he can't know what they are thinking/feeling as you've mentioned above, Mark; but also there's a misunderstanding on his part IMO: curiosity about death when one is involved in it, deals in it and is part of one's pysche as a Slayer does, and/or the wish to rest, to be free of the burden of being a Slayer (or the burdens of life) do not on their own constitute a death wish any more than suicide generally does. (the suicidal person is motivated by a desire to be rid of their pain, not to actually die per se.)<br /><br />But that lack of trustworthiness by various characters, and the complicated underpinnings of motivation (it's never just one thing or another) are part of what make this show fascinating to me; and this is a truly great episode. I think it's where Spike really "comes into his own" as a mesmerizing character in his own right, not just an adjunct to Buffy.Janicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08049113750769117163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-87467310960541280292012-08-07T09:13:22.873-07:002012-08-07T09:13:22.873-07:00I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say Buffy...I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say Buffy believes Spike -- she doesn't commit to it here -- but I do agree that she thinks he might well be right and it's in her mind. And the impact on her is, I agree, the important thing.<br /><br />If you ever do finish that post on identity, let me know. I'd like to read it.Mark Fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16661801011668244109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-5328751934114583052012-08-07T07:17:04.044-07:002012-08-07T07:17:04.044-07:00I understand the reasons why we should and should ...I understand the reasons why we should and should not believe Spike, but the more I think about it, the more I think that that does not matter—whether he thinks he is telling the truth does not matter. What does is that Buffy believes him—and that there is an internal logic to what he says, a logic that makes me deem him correct: although I would not go so far as to say that each Slayer has an active enough death wish to effectively suicide, I would argue that she is “just a little bit in love with [death]”… I do not know how the Slayer could not have an ambivalent relation to death—as Spike will say in another context, “It’s [her] calling.”<br /><br />And this works for me on a metaphorical level as well, wedded as I am to the Death Drive…<br /><br />On another note, Spike’s argument about what ties Buffy to the world—this, too, is telling to me, as plays a significant role in my alternate—I suppose one might call it a more postmodern, relational—reading of identity in Buffy… I had the better part of a post outlining it written up for Primeval, but never finished it… Ah well… Perhaps someday…<br /><br /><br />SPOILERY<br />Last thought: as I wrote further above, I thought it significant that Spike was moved by compassion, an intensely human emotion, at the end of the episode, implying that I saw this as a turning point. Now, having re-watched Shadow, I also think it significant that he engages in the seemingly passive activity of listening, which is almost diametrically opposed to vampiric blood-sucking: it takes (words) from the other as a way to nourish the other, diminishing one’s own energy in the process.StateOfSiege97https://www.blogger.com/profile/07100795610748395322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-43087560384701669792012-08-05T15:32:30.029-07:002012-08-05T15:32:30.029-07:00Gah. "He" not "he's".Gah. "He" not "he's".Mark Fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16661801011668244109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-40873662785990167122012-08-05T15:31:36.075-07:002012-08-05T15:31:36.075-07:00As I see it, there are 2 reasons to believe Spike ...As I see it, there are 2 reasons to believe Spike and 3 to disbelieve him. <br /><br />He's credible because what he says underplays his own abilities and attributes his success to the Slayers wanting to die. In addition, there's the fact that he does hit a nerve with Buffy, as you say. I agree with all your points about Buffy and her relationship to the sex and death and love and pain issues of Slayers and vampires.<br /><br />The reasons we shouldn't believe him are (a) that he's doesn't know those Slayers well enough to judge their mental state and, in one case, never even spoke to her; (b) we don't actually see them "want" to die in either case; and, (c) that as I emphasized, the episode itself undercuts Spike's narrative.<br /><br />There's a point of logic here as well, since Spike reasons from the particular to the general: even if we assume that the two Slayers he killed did have a death wish, that wouldn't necessarily mean all others did or that Buffy herself does.<br /><br />I do think it can be read either way, and I'll have more to say when we get to TWOTW.Mark Fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16661801011668244109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-27793970932284894642012-08-05T14:56:53.869-07:002012-08-05T14:56:53.869-07:00I tend to believe Spike, not, of course, because I...I tend to believe Spike, not, of course, because I find him generally credible, but for two other reasons. First, Spike has shown an ability to be radically observant, incisive—even when, in the next breath, he is radically obtuse, as here. Second, and most important—and, here, it does not matter whether Spike is telling the truth or not—Buffy believes him to be: the slight elevation in her breathing, her initial speechlessness, her fury, her very inability to hit him (or to do anything at all)—all these suggest that Spike has hit a nerve, that he has told her something about herself that she does not want to know.* Then, too, when he tells her that “Death is your art; you make it with your hands day after day,” he identifies, for the moment, the darkness Dracula revealed to her.** <br /><br />Does this mean that Buffy actively wanted to die when she let the fetid rocker turn her stake against her?*** No, not in my reading. For as Spike adds, she has ties to the world, and those ties present other obligations, give her other things to love and wish. But it does mean that her relationship to death—and life—is more complex, more ambivalent than she would like to know. And that spooks her. Buffy rarely shies from the difficulties of self-knowledge, and I do not think that she does so here, but she does take her difficulty out on Spike, echoing Cecily’s cruelty…<br /><br /><br />*That is not the only thing she does not want to know: the crossing of sex and death in vampirism is far from unknown to her, and she is being more than a bit disingenuous in her disgust—there was Dracula, after all, and more importantly, in GD2, there was Angel—his feeding off of her was undeniably sexual, and Buffy clearly “got off on it.” Is daily slaying sexual for Buffy? I do not think so, but it clearly gives her pleasure, as the first episode of the season (and its title character) made clear. But admitting this is something Buffy has had problems with ever since Faith, and while she seems to have resolved them for herself, the “naked” statement of her enjoyment by someone else continues to disturb her. I suggest it does so, at least in part, because of her ambivalent relationship to death.<br /><br /><br />SPOILERY<br /><br />**That darkness will come to have other interpretations, such as the inability to love, later in the season (in Intervention), and I see the two coming together in Buffy’s misreading of both Spike and the First Slayer in tWotW. <br /><br />***I tend to see him as 1) a wannabe member of the band Slayer (he has the hair) and 2) a tacky rocker wannabe to contrast with the Spike in full Billy Idol form whom we’ll see later.StateOfSiege97https://www.blogger.com/profile/07100795610748395322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-90133875678599029352012-08-04T14:57:22.350-07:002012-08-04T14:57:22.350-07:00I'm certain you can find fanfic on this.I'm certain you can find fanfic on this.Mark Fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16661801011668244109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-17746873065224243362012-08-04T14:48:38.937-07:002012-08-04T14:48:38.937-07:00SPOILERS OF A SORT
Catherine—I like the parallel ...SPOILERS OF A SORT<br /><br />Catherine—I like the parallel you draw... It has always struck me as significant that Spike shows no fear when he sees Dru's vamp face: he is afraid of her before (for his purse and himself), but not then...<br /><br />The one difference between the two events, and I think it is a crucial one for his future development, is that in the first, Dru's heart moves him to feel a truth about himself—one he did not know—for the sake of himself; in the second, Buffy's heart moves him to feel something in himself—compassion—that he did not know he had—for the sake of someone else. Spike is moved to comfort Buffy, take care of her, something he should not feel compelled to do, as a soulless vampire... <br /><br />(And we know that she takes comfort in him, because although she initially says that she does not want to talk about it, she does, as we will learn in the next episode—and to talk to him rather than Riley.)StateOfSiege97https://www.blogger.com/profile/07100795610748395322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-35606402523466808632012-08-04T14:47:31.601-07:002012-08-04T14:47:31.601-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.StateOfSiege97https://www.blogger.com/profile/07100795610748395322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-20318893013013666632012-08-02T22:11:41.414-07:002012-08-02T22:11:41.414-07:00"I'd rather have a railroad spike through..."I'd rather have a railroad spike through my head than listen to that awful stuff!"<br /><br />"Earned his nickname by torturing his victims with railroad spikes."<br /><br />Damn, I really want to see a very bloody comic about Spike's initial vengeance rampage.Groovypantshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05675003223939028997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-83952710622636015862012-08-02T21:06:15.675-07:002012-08-02T21:06:15.675-07:00Spike reacts to Buffy's rejection the same way...Spike reacts to Buffy's rejection the same way he did to his peers' jibes: with a sulking rage. And in both instances, a woman touches his heart, which changes his life's course.<br /><br />I credit this episode with teaching me a cool new word (effulgent) and providing a nicely nuanced definition for it as well.<br /><br />SPOILER<br /><br />Oh, Cecily. I'm sure we'll be discussing her again. Also, AtS fans will likely recognize Spike's poem. I like it better the second time 'round.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13550060758900308947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-18752603143118003502012-08-02T19:14:00.239-07:002012-08-02T19:14:00.239-07:00Ok, ewww!Ok, ewww!Mark Fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16661801011668244109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-72367039663816754862012-08-02T19:13:13.126-07:002012-08-02T19:13:13.126-07:00He's making himself a Slayer suit out of real ...He's making himself a Slayer suit out of real Slayers?executrixhttp://executrix.dreamwidth.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-37283216225754539682012-08-02T15:34:32.980-07:002012-08-02T15:34:32.980-07:00Best I can recall, all of the expressly religious ...Best I can recall, all of the expressly religious ceremonies we've seen have been Anglican, and that's probably the source.<br /><br />Spike in drag? I'm sure that's a fanfic already.Mark Fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16661801011668244109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-17329531748027834522012-08-02T14:59:31.693-07:002012-08-02T14:59:31.693-07:00Spike is therefore not only a Bloody Awful but an ...Spike is therefore not only a Bloody Awful but an Undead Poet. <br /><br />About "here endeth the lesson": it's used in Anglican services, of which Whedon must have attended many at Winchester.<br /><br />About the coat: so, basically, Spike has been walking around in drag for a couple of decades.executrixhttp://executrix.dreamdwidth.orgnoreply@blogger.com