tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post3228009372578693721..comments2024-01-15T02:19:13.716-08:00Comments on Fragments Of My Imagination: The Dark AgeMark Fieldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16661801011668244109noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-83404240678456397272019-02-22T13:30:33.599-08:002019-02-22T13:30:33.599-08:00Oh yeah, I definitely think they're reminding ...Oh yeah, I definitely think they're reminding us that Angel's still a demon inside. In that sense, we can probably see the title as referring to Angel as well as to Giles.Mark Fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16661801011668244109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-55547926278925728742019-02-22T08:04:15.704-08:002019-02-22T08:04:15.704-08:00Spoilers below:
There's an aspect of Willow&#...Spoilers below:<br /><br />There's an aspect of Willow's plan to defeat Eyghon that's interesting in light of where the season arc goes. Willow's plan uses Angel's body, but it's the demon inside that destroys Eyghon. Eyghon is Angelus's first on-screen victim . <br />I don't know if it's philosophically relevant, but it's some clever hidden foreshadowing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-90571043268514014172013-02-18T16:26:07.492-08:002013-02-18T16:26:07.492-08:00I'm sure it was, especially because sex is suc...I'm sure it was, especially because sex is such a big theme of S2.Mark Fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16661801011668244109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-1713959892141903782013-02-18T16:11:11.498-08:002013-02-18T16:11:11.498-08:00SPOILERS/Foreshadowing for S2
Did anyone else gasp...SPOILERS/Foreshadowing for S2<br />Did anyone else gasp when Demon-Jenny looked up at Giles and said "Was it good for you?"? This being BtVS, I refuse to believe that that wasn't intentional!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-73268683751385032902012-01-17T18:22:35.048-08:002012-01-17T18:22:35.048-08:00Gah. Anonymous left a comment for this episode whi...Gah. Anonymous left a comment for this episode which I can't see. Second time this has happened. In case others can't see it, I've copied it here:<br /><br />**Spoilers for Angel spin-off**<br />This behavior feels especially fitting when we finally get flashbacks of cursed!Angel in the decades prior to BtVS S1. He wasn't actually interested in playing the hero, especially after an ugly encounter during the 50's... which is likely what ends up with him later completely isolated from human & vampire kind and living off in the squalor Whistler finds him in. This knowledge makes Angel in S1 much more interesting to me, as we see him slowly inspired to take more agency and put himself out for people. As Angel comes more and more out of his shell and actually exercises the humanity that soul gives him the choice to access, he grows into more of a "hero" figure. <br /><br />My response:<br /><br />Yes, that's how I see him as well.Mark Fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16661801011668244109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-92197254283780855172012-01-17T18:15:49.953-08:002012-01-17T18:15:49.953-08:00**Spoilers for Angel spin-off**
This behavior feel...**Spoilers for Angel spin-off**<br />This behavior feels especially fitting when we finally get flashbacks of cursed!Angel in the decades prior to BtVS S1. He wasn't actually interested in playing the hero, especially after an ugly encounter during the 50's... which is likely what ends up with him later completely isolated from human & vampire kind and living off in the squalor Whistler finds him in. This knowledge makes Angel in S1 much more interesting to me, as we see him slowly inspired to take more agency and put himself out for people. As Angel comes more and more out of his shell and actually exercises the humanity that soul gives him the choice to access, he grows into more of a "hero" figure.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-91076224984542700382012-01-06T10:18:23.518-08:002012-01-06T10:18:23.518-08:00@State of Siege, nice catch and cool observation, ...@State of Siege, nice catch and cool observation, re: the Forster.aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09511776738005115468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-52819055965660913752012-01-06T06:26:00.769-08:002012-01-06T06:26:00.769-08:00SPOILERS CONT
I wonder that often myself. So muc...SPOILERS CONT<br /><br />I wonder that often myself. So much of S3 is the angst between those two and how it must inevitably end, I really what they would have filled it with. Would Buffy have found a new guy? Would she have dated several guys and not really settled down, always running the risk to her now not-so-secret ident? Would her and Faith have hit it off better, if she had been more confident in her sexuality and not so threatened by Faith's in-your-face sexuality? <br /><br />SO MANY QUESTIONS??? <br /><br />Another fun thing I've seen done, is fans wondering what Dawn would have been doing right now?Aerylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10442074043571201717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-2463167095884041632012-01-05T20:51:09.309-08:002012-01-05T20:51:09.309-08:00Oh yes—the quote as a whole—"the prose and th...Oh yes—the quote as a whole—"the prose and the passion" might be Giles and Jenny or Giles' two sides, the latter relevant to your allegorical interpretation—makes the association even stronger.<br /><br />Thanks to you and Wikipedia.StateOfSiegenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-44877891090150662592012-01-05T17:31:14.953-08:002012-01-05T17:31:14.953-08:00Wikipedia comes to the rescue:
"Only connect...Wikipedia comes to the rescue:<br /><br />"Only connect! That was the whole of her sermon. Only connect the prose and the passion and both will be exalted, and human love will be seen at its height. Live in fragments no longer."<br /><br />Very nice suggestion. And the quote supports it in a very interesting way.Mark Fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16661801011668244109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-59485936645148250012012-01-05T17:17:06.079-08:002012-01-05T17:17:06.079-08:00Apologies for the late post—been a rather overwhel...Apologies for the late post—been a rather overwhelming week...<br /><br />Small trivia with SPOILER:<br /><br />Early in the episode, Giles & Jenny discuss a book he had lent her—a first edition by Forster, meaning, I assume, early 20th century novelist & journalist E.M. Forster—<br /><br />The titles is not mentioned, but I've always liked to think it was the book usually deemed his masterpiece, Howard's End. The motto to that book is appropriate—in the positive and negative sense—to this episode: "only connect."<br /><br />And although I can no longer quote from memory the passage in which the family matriarch first utters it (and do not currently have all my books with me), I remember that the passage runs, from beginning to end, "Only connect.... live no more in fragments." <br /><br />This I see as particularly relevant to Giles' life—and to the structure of S2, if we take up aaron's reading of Passion as the mirror episode to this one. For Giles is seeking to "only connect" with Jenny, and I would argue that after Passions, he "live[s]... in fragments" for the rest of the series, as his dream in Restless and his spoken motives in S6 indicate.StateOfSiegenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-71719558207651594282012-01-05T14:04:00.194-08:002012-01-05T14:04:00.194-08:00MAJOR SPOILERS FOR S2 and S3
That seems like a pl...MAJOR SPOILERS FOR S2 and S3<br /><br />That seems like a plausible scenario. I often wonder how S3 would have played out if Angel had stayed dead. Joss must have had something in mind, but I don't recall anyone ever asking him that.Mark Fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16661801011668244109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-37461969198526401722012-01-05T14:00:34.504-08:002012-01-05T14:00:34.504-08:00SPoilers
I think there would have been a major ou...SPoilers<br /><br />I think there would have been a major outrage among the fans if Angel had stayed a whiny nincompoop before Surprise. Sure Buffy was attracted to him in Season 1, but it isn't until he starts being more active in her calling that their relationship heats up. So buffing Angel up was an excuse to have them spend more time together, and to turn Angel into a character the fans would feel comfortable with Buffy dating. <br /><br />I know the original plan in Season 2 was for Angel to stay dead, but the WB offered Joss another show if he'd bring him back, so I think in season 3, with eps like Amends, is where it starts to be established that he is a hero in his right, seperate and distinct from Buffy, and then Enemies establishes how he could do that differently than Buffy. And by Graduation Day you can tell they were totally setting up Angel as his own hero, he gets his own fight scene!Aerylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10442074043571201717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-38529573252264116092012-01-05T11:11:28.484-08:002012-01-05T11:11:28.484-08:00SPOILERS CONTINUED:
I think you're right that...SPOILERS CONTINUED:<br /><br />I think you're right that it probably wasn't all that clear to him - it's an issue that the show Angel takes up in fits and starts . . . and it's a bit difficult to see where and how the Buffyverse really starts to plant the seeds of the idea of Angel as an important hero. Did Joss already have the idea when he conceived of the character? Did it only become clear when they knew Angel's fate at the end of S02, but also that he'd be back for S03?<br /><br />So it's a bit difficult to tell which early "signs" were intentional. But it does seem to me that the way his "awakening" is depicted in Becoming lends itself to his early timidity around Buffy in S01, while his growing love for her combined with his sense that doing good feels good leads naturally to his taking a more active role in Scooby activity.aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09511776738005115468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-13282753521351057452012-01-05T10:39:36.492-08:002012-01-05T10:39:36.492-08:00MAJOR SPOILERS THROUGH S2
I've never been ent...MAJOR SPOILERS THROUGH S2<br /><br />I've never been entirely clear on how Angel saw himself with Buffy after Whistler intervened. Part of it is that we just don't get much detail in Becoming. Certainly he jumped at the chance to "be somebody", and certainly he was attracted to Buffy, but just how he thought he'd connect the two is not so clear. It may not have been clear to him either.Mark Fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16661801011668244109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-66639624334251884262012-01-05T10:34:09.787-08:002012-01-05T10:34:09.787-08:00From a strictly narrative perspective, it probably...From a strictly narrative perspective, it probably was a good idea to keep a lid on Angel's potential heroism during S01 - the show needed to establish that it was Buffy who was, indeed, the hero of the show.<br /><br />Also (MILD SPOILERS for S02),<br /><br />I think Angel really did see his role early on more as something like an extra-watcher or guide for Buffy (as depicted in Becoming) and only slowly blossomed into a more heroic type because of his feelings for her and his growing sense of accomplishment over "doing the right thing." Or so it seems to me . . .aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09511776738005115468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-12523278866835788342012-01-04T10:17:04.914-08:002012-01-04T10:17:04.914-08:00I just remember him whining in The Harvest, when B...I just remember him whining in The Harvest, when Buffy asks him if he's going to fight the vampires, he says no and she shouldn't either, one of his lines is, "I'm afraid" delivered in a very straightforward manner. <br /><br />Now, at this time, I already knew he was a vampire, so I'm yelling at him for being such a wuss, but that line reveals a lot about him in hindsight(things that were in some way contradicted by the exploration of his past on the show, the submarine ep for one). <br /><br />So yea, before Buffy could love him, it had to be established that he was willing to put himself on the line and fight the good fight like Buffy. So that's what's being done here.Aerylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10442074043571201717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-5220721639245349582012-01-03T13:19:48.160-08:002012-01-03T13:19:48.160-08:00It's interesting because Angel isn't a &qu...It's interesting because Angel isn't a "hero" at all in S1. He's helpful, but he never puts himself in any danger except in PG (with Xander right there with him).<br /><br />The heroic image is partly, well, imagery. He's shown rather heroically: mysterious, brooding, dark, gorgeous, etc. He looks the part.<br /><br />His actual bravery doesn't begin until S2, and the build up is gradual. As of SAR, saving Cordy from an arm was probably third on his list of actual deeds.<br /><br />There are, obviously, good reasons for this, as you know, but they won't be shown for a while.Mark Fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16661801011668244109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-59915873841105425572012-01-03T12:24:21.259-08:002012-01-03T12:24:21.259-08:00I remember being shocked when I initially watched ...I remember being shocked when I initially watched season one, as I'd already seen most of seasons 2 and 3, and knowing he'd gone on to his own show, at how scaredy cat Angel was in season one. <br /><br />So establishing him as a hero was super important, else how would we be invested in his character and care about what's about to happen?Aerylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10442074043571201717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-13402846912278416612012-01-03T11:01:27.138-08:002012-01-03T11:01:27.138-08:00aaron: All excellent points. I'd note that up ...aaron: All excellent points. I'd note that up to this point in time Angel has been played as a hero-type, but he hasn't actually done much heroic. While he did do some fighting in PG, WSWB, School Hard, and Reptile Boy, it was peripheral to the main action and nothing comparable to Xander in PG. This episode showed him willing to really put himself on the line. While Buffy wasn't sure she trusted him in Lie to Me, Angel's behavior here may have convinced her.<br /><br />Aeryl, LOL on the Dr. Frankenfurter suggestion. Maybe not quite the same message though.Mark Fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16661801011668244109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-36776253671008604032012-01-03T10:31:49.507-08:002012-01-03T10:31:49.507-08:00"The rest is silence" is a throwback to ..."The rest is silence" is a throwback to the movie as well, of course it's usage is so nonsensical in the movie that I think it was taken completely out of whatever context Joss originally intended for it. <br /><br />Trivia 5) They should have just used a pic of him doing Dr. Frankenfurter <br /><br />http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Anthony+Stewart+Head+Dr.+Frankenfurter&view=detail&id=5BCCD59F2E4AD08A77C62CF6CE41854400394805&first=0&FORM=IDFRIRAerylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10442074043571201717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-55627536298188972462012-01-03T08:08:03.689-08:002012-01-03T08:08:03.689-08:00Apologies in advance for the length . . .
The Dar...Apologies in advance for the length . . .<br /><br />The Dark Age is an interesting episode for me - it's not one of my favorites as a standalone episode, and I probably wouldn't put it very high on any best-of lift. But its place in both the arc of the season and in terms of establishing some key elements of Joss Whedon's evolving story-telling ethos is very high.<br /><br />MILD SPOILERS<br /><br />Narrative-wise, it's a very interesting episode for a couple of reasons. First (and I'm sure you're well aware of this Mark), it really sets the stage for the back half of Season 2. Lie to Me, may have set that stage thematically, but TDA does so in terms of narrative - if I recall, it's Angels actions in this episode that really start to warm the gang to him, saving Jenny and all. This also works on the audience as we start to see Angel as more than just a love interest/protector of Buffy and as a genuine "hero" like figure. And it's key that this perception of him comes via his saving Jenny's life. As we will learn in Passion, it is also an encounter between Angel and Jenny that shows us his true potential for villainy.<br /><br />Tied into all that is the beginning of Jenny and Giles's rocky relationship. What to now has seemed cute and flirty will remained strained for just about all of Jenny's time in Sunnydale. That strain is also key to audience reaction in Passion because its the hope that Jenny and Giles will get back together (and even Buffy's warming to the idea) that really makes Angel's actions in Passion, ahem, bite so deeply.<br /><br />And this leads to TDA's place as a marker in Whedon's own evolving approach to story telling. It has since become almost cliche to point out Whedon's unwillingness to let a happy couple stay happy. But it's even more than that. He likes to take a happy couple, tear them apart, then let them slowly grope their way back to happiness before springing some brutal twist on the couple (and the audience) that permanently ends things. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Giles and Jenny's relationship is Whedon's first go-round with this story-telling trope, and it all really begins here, in The Dark Age.<br /><br />So while I don't really LOVE the episode on its own, I do love what it does and recognize it as a very vital piece in what's about to become an incredible arc.aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09511776738005115468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-53237052971223213492012-01-03T06:35:52.465-08:002012-01-03T06:35:52.465-08:00Thank you. I appreciate the support.Thank you. I appreciate the support.Mark Fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16661801011668244109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5913356479406165601.post-62309570079053578482012-01-02T20:22:43.594-08:002012-01-02T20:22:43.594-08:00I am enjoying your posts.I am enjoying your posts.Liznoreply@blogger.com