I'm writing this post reluctantly. I'd prefer to ignore personal issues when it comes to discussing art (and oftentimes politics). I decided I needed to say something about Kai Cole's recent blog post about Joss Whedon for two reasons: (1) I'm quite complimentary about Joss in various essays here and in the book; and (2) some of her accusations touch on Joss' relationships with people involved in BtVS (I wouldn't care if he had an affair with someone outside his shows -- that's a matter between the parties).
Let me get some things out of the way at the beginning. I refer to "accusations" against Joss because that's the lawyer in me. We haven't seen the actual letter(s) to which Kai refers, nor do we know any of the actual details. I'm cautious about interpreting evidence as a professional matter. However, I'm going to write this upon the assumption that Joss had at least one affair with someone involved with BtVS.
I have to say that IMO the details do matter here as far as my personal judgment is concerned. I'm not going to try to define the precise boundaries of what's acceptable and what's not, as if I were some arbiter. I'm not. I can only say that my personal view depends on the details. I started to explain with some examples, but decided that was unfair to individuals and distasteful to me. Moving on.
I'm going to assume that Joss had an affair with someone on BtVS which involved him being in a position of authority over that person, which is, to me anyway, the most potentially disturbing case. Note that I don't know if he did; I'm assuming that for the sake of discussion.
There are, in my view, two significant issues which arise from this assumed fact. The first is the question of Joss' credentials, if any, as a feminist. I'm not going to say much about this. I don't consider myself competent to discuss feminism as a topic generally, and I'm certainly not an arbiter of "true feminism" if there is such a thing.
The question I've seen raised is whether someone can be a feminist while having affairs, particularly affairs with someone over whom s/he has a position of authority. Notwithstanding the fact that some commenters, probably justifiably, noted my tendency to be judgmental when discussing, say, Xander, my answer is "sure". In my view, people aren't perfect. They not only make mistakes, they do stupid things. Failure to live up to your own professed ideals pretty much makes you human. That might irritate me (see Xander), but outside of extreme cases people don't have to be perfectly consistent. They can do good things and bad ones too.
The second issue, and I think it's related to the first, involves how we deal with artists who are unpleasant or even awful. I can't pretend that I have a perfectly consistent view on this. I'd never go to a Ted Nugent concert because I think he's despicable. On the other hand, I have no problem thinking that Chinatown is a great movie even though Polanski's conduct was horrific and I was one of the lawyers representing Polanski's victim.
If we ask how many artists do bad things personally or advocate for them publicly, my first guess would be all of them. Maybe more. We can't demand a test of personal perfection or else we could never enjoy any art. In some discussion with shadowkat on her lj page, we came up with 2 potential grounds for justifying my response to the Nugent and Polanski examples. One involves the distinction between personal conduct as opposed to political views. The other, the distinction between individual works versus collaborative ones.
The personal/political distinction kinda sorta works, as long as you're willing to agree that the personal isn't necessarily political (and that's a contested point). My view is that while behaviors that lots of people engage in are certainly political, not every private action is intended as a political statement. So, to continue with my examples from above, Polanski didn't intend his rape to be a political statement, whereas Nugent makes overt and obviously political comments. YMMV on this.
The other distinction is that a TV show, as I said in the essay on The Freshman, requires the collaboration of lots of people: actors, producers, writers, censors, et al. I have much less problem separating art from artist when "artist" is a plural. Even if Joss Whedon was the single biggest influence on BtVS, he was not the only influence, and the triumph of the show didn't just include others, it required them.
That brings me to the final point, which is that of hero worship. I'm not a big fan of hero worship, for exactly the reasons I gave above: people aren't perfect. Well, Willie Mays was perfect, but one counter-example just proves my point more generally. I gave Joss a ton of credit in the essays here, and I still do. That never meant that I accepted everything he did uncritically. That's evident, too (I hope), in the essays. It's not just that some episodes are weaker than others, it's what remained unsaid: as is obvious, I never sat down to write about Dollhouse, for example, because I don't think it's a great show. I respect and admire what Joss accomplished in BtVS, but I don't extend that any further than I think it's deserved. That's the flip side of my view that I generally don't consider an artist's personal life to affect my evaluation of the art.
While I'm obviously disappointed that this issue ever even had to arise, it doesn't affect my personal attitude towards BtVS. But I don't think I have stated or could state a definitive rationale and I think reasonable people can reach different conclusions here.
I'm quite surprised no one has commented on this. Granted, this is kind of old news now, and from what I understand not much came from it (although I haven't purposefully been keeping up).
ReplyDeleteI think this is an extremely reasonable take, and it matches my thoughts fairly closely. It's kind of funny, because these issues of both hero worship and what we do with artists/entertainers who have done or said something not great or terrible, seem to have arisen even more frequently since 2017. That's an obvious outcome of an increasingly connected world.
What's not so obvious, though, is if people en masse have a good understanding, or even capacity of understanding, to choose for themselves how little or how much they do or do not separate their enjoyment of a creator's output from that creator themselves.
I think most people are aware that there can be conflicting issues between creator and output, but I've heard viewpoints ranging all the way from "cancel/exile them completely and burn their stuff" to "that's bad, but I'm taking their work for what it is on its own". My viewpoint is definitely closer to the latter, but I think we should remember that even if one holds that free-thinking (IMO) viewpoint, we should also be aware that in some ways, depending on the medium, the creator(s) *cannot* be completely forgotten during media analysis, as their unsavory viewpoints can still creep in through various means.
Again, most people should be able to discern for themselves if and when this occurs, but I'm standing back to take a bigger picture look at this in order to point out that it's also incumbent upon people who have the time and capacity to point these things out, that we should still keep doing this, so that others can benefit from the analysis without having to perform it themselves. I.e., they can get a fuller picture from an analysis than they might find in any news outlet or fandom (going on both extremes). This helps keep potentially dangerous or bad ideas (not that I think ideas can be dangerous in and of themselves, I'm more referring to normalization of bad things such as bigotry, racism, violence against poor people, anti-vaxx positions, etc.) out of the zeitgeist, or what little class consciousness we even have here in the US. Again, I'm also providing an ameri-centric viewpoint, because despite a year living in Paris, that's most of what I know.
One recent concrete example of this the idea I'm talking about is concerning JK Rowling. I won't go into the details for fear of making this too much about specific politics instead of media analysis, but it suffices to say I think I could make a great case that knowing about Rowling's transphobia is extremely important when analyzing the Harry Potter series (both books and movies). There are other examples with other creators as well.
Anyway, just wanted to chime in a little bit here, but your post basically encapsulated all of what I said much better anyway. I expect this is an issue/topic that will continue to pop up periodically.
Cheers.
Oh, and yes, back to this particular thing with Whedon... my opinion of Buffy has been moved 0 by these reports, but I'm alert to any normalization of bad subtexts in the episodes he directly wrote, just in case. Also I didn't mention but it should go without saying, every case is extremely specific to that particular person(s) and medium(a) themselves, so I try not to cross-compare these situations too much. Life is complex, and just because nuance is cumbersome doesn't mean we should throw it out completely. OK, now I really have to get back to work. :)
ReplyDeleteI think you and I are pretty much in the same place on this issue. I've had to struggle with a lot. I'm a lawyer and I represented the victim in the Polanski rape case. Chinatown is one of my favorite movies. How can I reconcile this? I'm not sure I can.
DeleteOne other thought that's more general. If your partner appreciates video analysis, you can find excellent reviews of Buffy episodes on YouTube by Passion of the Nerd. He's up to S5, so be aware that you'll probably finish the series before he does.
That must've been quite interesting. I was pretty young while that case was happening, but I still remember hearing about it tangentially. I'm not an attorney, but my closest experience to yours was as an expert witness on an insurance fraud case of a famous skateboarder in CA. Part of it is still going through subrogation so I won't name them yet, but it's funny how some of the rules tend to be different when celebrity status is involved. Sigh.
DeleteAnyway, I'm going to have to move Chinatown up on my (forever ethereal) "movie list". It has definitely been on my radar, and now that someone else whose opinions I seem to share on entertainment also says it's great, it's a must-watch. Is there a preferred version I should get (like a director's cut, or re-release)? Or just go with the original? I have access to all the Netflix/Amazon/Hulu/HBO services, etc.
And thank you for this. That YT channel Passion of the Nerd has actually come up in my recommendations, but I've just never found myself clicking on it. I think that's a good strategy, to maybe find a really engaging analysis from S1 that doesn't spoil him too much, and get Cody (mah pardner) to watch it to whet his appetite. I'd be interested in hearing how passionate and in-depth others also get with the show, and hopefully seeing that from someone who is not me would help him.
As a side note: I always knew I was going to dive back into the Buffyverse some day, and I'm glad I stumbled upon your site. Heading into this "dark winter", this will be a nice activity to add to my post-work routine. I remember visiting "message boards" and "forums" (the memories!) about Buffy when the internet was a newish thing in the early oughts, and for some reason (probably sexism) there was a huge consensus on Buffy being a bitch and a terrible heroine throughout the show. I identified with Buffy greatly, so reading these things really hurt me, and I got made fun of a lot by those chuds on those boards. They even went so far as to defend the scoobs in Dead Man's Party and that other episode in S7 (name is escaping me) where everyone gangs up on Buffy for (almost) no reason. Long story short: it made me feel crazy and like my identifying with Buffy was wrong and I was somehow bad. I carried that with me all through college and very recently, as crazy as that sounds, and I think it contributed to me not wanting to get back into Buffy too much (besides re-watching, which I did). Anyway, reading other peoples' opinions nowadays gives me much more hope. I'm glad the popular consensus is that those episodes are some of the worst, especially in terms of consistency. I still skip DMP to this day.
Thank you for all the replies, as well. It really means a lot having authentic, cordial interaction online. Thank you.
The original version of Chinatown is the only one I've ever seen. I'm not even sure there are other cuts.
ReplyDeleteI was heavily on line in Buffy fandom back then and yeah, it got pretty crazy, especially in S6 and S7. But (no real spoiler) don't worry: Dead Man's Party is one of my 2 least favorite episodes. I almost always skip it. And I see the show through a very Buffy-centric lens, so I hope you'll appreciate that too.
Passion of the Nerd does great reviews. Unfortunately he didn't do all of S1. I wish he'd go back and fill in, because it's a great way to get a new viewer invested in that season. He did do one on "why you should watch Buffy", so you can start there with a newbie.
Cool. I'll put Chinatown in my queue then.
DeleteAnd beautiful, I'll start with the 'why you should watch Buffy' video. I'll report back on the success rate. Should make for a nice little anecdotal experiment. Give me a couple weeks to butter him up though, haha. Cheers again.